Hi Olivier,
Thanks for your kind assitance.
Regarding the 1st image that you have shown, how did you get those contours and the result looks reasonable.
For question no.1, I have removed one of the window panes.
For question no.2, I am using the “Auto-Fit Grid to Objects” --> “Within” type. Is it correct?
For question no.3, usually does the internal and external reflectance of the materials have to be the same? As for the ceilings, I have amended the reflectivity to be 80%.
For question no.4, I convert the Google Sketchup model to dxf. file, which would then import to the Ecotect. Yes, I agree with you on a lot of 0-area wall objects. Normally, I would individually select the objects and categorised them into respective categories. Is there a faster way such that the Ecotect will know the material/objects instantly?
Also, I have one question to clarify:
a) After finish running the daylight analysis, Is there a faster way to know the lux level on a particular location, without having manually hide/show the analysis grids?
Thanks
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Re: Ecotect and Radiance Daylight Results Discussion
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Re: Ecotect and Radiance Daylight Results Discussion
Hi Olivier,
Just to add on,
When we export the daylight result from Ecotect to Radiance, kindly advise what option should we select if we need the lux levels from Radiance back to Ecotect?
Below are my steps:
- Select “Export to Radiance for More Detailed Analysis”
- Select “Illuminance Image (Lux)”
- Select “Surface and/or Point Analysis”
- Select “Analysis Grid”
- Select “Cloudy Sky (Winter)”
- Select “Use Current Date and Time”
- Select “Interior Views”
- Select “Current 3D Editor View”
- Select “Model Detail/ Lighting Variability/ Image Quality – Medium”
- Import Radiance result back to ecotect
Kindly advise if my steps are correct.
Thanks in advance.
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Re: create view point file for Daysim
Hi Oliver,
Thank you very much for your email. Yes this is very strange. Because I can run the hdrscope for the first .pic and it can end up with results.
I am not sure about the version of evalglare, it is the one that is integrated in the DAYSIM 3.1e for WIndows. Also i am using Desktop Randiance 2.0 Beta plug in for Autodesk ecotect analysis 2011.
I have unistall and reinstalled hdrscope and the results are the same: dgp,dgi,ugr,vcp,cgi,Lveil: -1.#IND00 -1.#IND00 -1.#IND00 -1.#IND00 -1.#IND00 -1.#IND00
The false colour works and the results I get are:
Could you please send an email to hdrscope to ask about the specific message I received?
Thank you in advance,
Chryso
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Re: Ecotect and Radiance Daylight Results Discussion
Hello EIM123,
Glad to be of help.
The contours on the analysis grid can be turned on/off by checking the Show Contour Lines option in the Analysis Grid control panel.
Comment 1: good. I know it is painful to have to delete these single panes, and it is hard on the eyes, but there isn't any work around, unless you adjust the property of the glazing to account for the two panes. As I said earlier, I am thinking of a script that could do this automatically, but that always takes time 
Comment 2: Yes, that is correct. But because your model is not orthogonal with the Ecotect grid and you cannot rotate the analysis grid, you end up with these "teeth" and corners that can sneak out of the intended analysis space.
It is possible, however, to edit any one of these "rogue" nodes by simply deleting them: in the Analysis Grid Control panel click on the Select Grid Nodes button > select the individual nodes that need to be "deleted" > click on the Hide button. This will only hide the selected node, not delete it. In that way, you can adjust your analysis grid to exactly your space.
Comment 3: No, the reflectivity of the material does not have to be the same for the exterior and interior surfaces. BUT, it should not matter when using Radiance to run the analysis, as it will only use whatever surface reflectivity is visible from the analysis nodes or camera, and this is typically only one of the two surfaces. When using Ecotect to run the daylight analysis, it will use each surface's property. Note that Ecotect's analysis method is not as refined as Radiance, and should only be used for quick feedback and Daylight Factor calculation compliance. For a more in-depth analysis, Radiance is the ticket.
Comment 4: That is a good way to do it and I do this sometimes, although I prefer the .OBJ file export option, as it seems better suited to "clean up" the Ecotect model since it categorizes the layers into the materials used. Double check your export options from Sketchup: you can tell Sketchup NOT to export line objects and vertices, which makes the import much cleaner. Overall, you will have to experiment with the various options and see which one works best for you.
For viewing your results, importing the analysis grid back to Ecotect is of course the easy way, and you will be constrained to viewing your results on the analysis grid. This is a good method for large spaces and floor plans. But there is another way: you can run the Radiance analysis for a specific camera view that you create in Ecotect. Instead of running Radiance on the analysis grid, you ask it to run the analysis for the particular camera view. Once completed, you can click anywhere on the created rendering and it will give you the illuminance or luminance levels right on the image. You can also use this image to run glare analyses. This is a good method for specific viewpoints, critical for glare analyses.
Hope that helps.
Cheers,
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Re: Ecotect and Radiance Daylight Results Discussion
Hello EIM123,
Yes, these steps are all good for an illuminance calculation on the analysis grid.
Some notes:
Step 5: this will depend on what you are after: selecting Cloudy Sky is good for a worst case scenario, good for illuminance analysis for example; Clear Sky would be good for a worst case scenario for luminance analysis (as in for glare study). Some codes / benchmark systems require a particular sky model for their analysis. For example, in the US, LEED requires you to run the analysis using Clear Sky model.
Step 7 & 8: These don't really matter much when running the analysis on the Grid. It is mainly for when running the analysis for a created camera view. So you can leave the 3D editor option off.
Step 9: that is my typical default run setting: all on medium. But if I am experimenting for best results, I would first run in low accuracy mode for faster processing. When results look ok, I can then bump up the accuracy. It will really make the rendered images (when using camera view) better with image Quality set to HIGH. But of course, it takes a toll on the time it takes to run the calculations.
Also, keep in mind that the larger your model is, the less accurate the calculation will be, unless you edit the default Radiance settings manually. But that is a separate topic...
The model detail setting will dictate the number of indirect light reflection at the end of the wizard.
Indirect reflections should typically be set between 3 and 5 for normal models. If the model has a lot of details (small louvers), then you will need to bump this value a bit to account for the many reflections the light might take to reach the point of analysis.
Hope that helps.
Cheers,
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Re: create view point file for Daysim
Hello chrysohe,
Very puzzling indeed!
Researching this a bit tells me that the results hdrscope gives you (-1#IND00) means that some operations in the software is giving infinite negative result, such as dividing by zero.
What is strange is that both your *.pic work just fine on my machine, so I do not think it is an issue with either Radiance, Evalglare or even hdrscope.
I have the same version of evalglare as you have (from Daysim 3.1e), and also use Desktop Radiance 2.0.
I have ran the evalglare manually using the command prompt and it gives me correct results:
Have you tried re-running this particular view in Radiance and creating a new image?
In any case, you should contact hdrscope with your *.pic and explain the issue:
For bug reports please e-mail hdrscope@uw.edu with [BUG] in the subject line followed by a brief description. You may use the body of the e-mail to explain more about the bug. Please mention the exact action or command you were performing which led to the bug you are reporting. If the bug is reproduce-able, it will help if you can list the sequence of steps that will reproduce the bug. Also, mentioning information such as OS version, Radiance install version, graphics card/driver, camera model and driver, SDK version etc. will help us provide a faster response.
Let me know of any breakthrough in this issue.
Cheers,
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Re: create view point file for Daysim
Hi Pennetrier and thank you for your email. I have just tried to run evalglare.exe and I got the same strange results.
For a reason that I dont understand, I cannot save the Radiance image with different name or I cannot find it in the folder which all .pic files are saved.
I have sent a mail to hdrscope and I wish that they can give me their lights.
I will keep you inform.
Thanks,
Chryso
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Re: Ecotect and Radiance Daylight Results Discussion
Hi Olivier,
Thanks for taking your time to answer every question.
I have tried re- running the analysis grid in the Ecotect, and I export the results to Radiance for further analysis for 4 different periods. After that, I have imported the Radiance results back to Ecotect again, which the Radiance results do not make sense just like the previous post on 28 Mar 2016. E.g. those areas with completely enclosed/no windows (Highlighted in RED), there was some daylight coming in, which does not make sense. Kindly advise the steps on how we should go about it so that the Radiance results look more reasonable.
Thanks
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Re: ecotect weather data files
So how exactly it is possible
I have been strugeling with with it for a while.
I have CSV file from green building studio and I would like to import it in Ecotect, convert to WEA.
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Re: Ecotect and Radiance Daylight Results Discussion
Hello EIM123,
I think you should try something else:
Using a new Zone, create planes that fit only within each room of your model, instead of using the main floor object; then you can fit the analysis grid to these object and the analysis grid will not go out of the rooms and pick up any outside light. Don't forget to turn the zone off prior to the analysis.
I have just tried that on your model without changing anything from what you sent me and it seems to work alright:
I am attaching the file here with this post so you can see what I mean.
Let me know if that works.
Cheers,
Edited by Request
Discussion_Admin
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Re: Ecotect and Radiance Daylight Results Discussion
Hi Olivier,
Thanks for the advice. I have tried created a plane as what you have did, but the result is still the same. Would you advise the each step by each step that you did in order to get your results, so that I know where is the place that I did wrong? Sorry to trouble you.
Thanks and Best Regards
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Re: Ecotect and Radiance Daylight Results Discussion
Hello EIM123,
Here are the step-by-step I take to derive the Radiance-based luminance calculations in your model:
1. Create a new zone and using the plane tool, outline the interior floor space you want analyzed.
2. With your plane object selected, click the Auto-Fit Grid to Object button in the Analysis Grid control panel. Select the Withinoption, Selected Objects, XY axis, set a grid height for work plane level, and specify a cell size.
3. You analysis grid should be confined to the inside of your space only, with no nodes sneaking out of the space whereas it could see the "outside". You can now turn the Floor Plane zone off so it does not interfere with your calculations.
4. Go to the Calculate menu > Lighting Analysis > Export to Radiance, and follow the steps:
Once running, your command prompt should list you actual Radiance settings.
Check that these are correct. The default values should still give you something reasonable, but you can adjust -ab, -aa and -ar for more refined analysis.
5. When the import window appears, select which row in your analysis grid you want the new data to be imported. You have 5 choices. Here I choose row #1, since all of my 5 rows are empty. Click Import.
6. Move the Ecotect canvas a bit to refresh the screen and the new grid should appear:
7. You can now adjust the scale, the color and add contour lines using the options of the Analysis Grid control panel:
8. If you click on the Select Grid Nodes button, you can select whatever nodes you want (press Shift for multiple nodes).
Then selecting the Selected Only option under Show Nodes Values in the control panel will only show you the values at these selected points.
I hope this clarifies things a bit on the how-to side of radiance calculations. This is of course just a quick primer on how to import back to Ecotect, but there are much more to that with Radiance and material properties
You could also look into the Revit Daylighting plug-in which creates daylighting calculations and renderings from Revit model if that is what you have.
Let me know if that helps.
Cheers,
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Re: ecotect weather data files
Hello sveisbergs,
There seems to be quite a few posts regarding the *.cvs to *.wea file format for climate files, so here is a little step-by-step.
1. Have a *.cvs file ready which includes the minimum data required for a solid .wea file: month, day, hour, global horizontal radiation, direct normal radiation, diffuse normal radiation, cloud cover, dry bulb temperature, relative humidity, wind direction and wind speed for the 8760 hours of the year.
Green Building Studio weather files have all that and more.
2. Keep that file open for reference and launch the weather Tool. Go to File menu > Open > Separated Value Files > select your *.csv file.
This window appears:
3. For each column of your *.csv file, add the appropriate data descriptor and select the correct units. If one of the header in your *.csv file is not available from the list, then choose the <ignore value> descriptor. Do not skip the column though!
For a GBS.cvs file, it should look like this:
You can save this setting as a Custom Column Format (*.CCF) file for faster import next time you open a similar file.
4. Click Import File button and it should load the data into the Weather Tool. Go to the Hourly Data Tab > Edit Hourly Data and cross-reference the data with that of your *.csv file for that particular day.
6. If all look good, enter some info about your file under the Location Data Tab (name, latitude, longitude, time zone, altitude...) then go to the File menu > Save As and save your file as a *.wea file. The file can now be used in Ecotect.
I hope this is helpful.
Cheers,
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Re: ecotect weather data files
thanks for step by step explanation -
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Re: Ecotect and Radiance Daylight Results Discussion
Hi Olivier,
I have followed the sreenshots posted by you and tried numerous scenarios but the results are still the same.
Different Scenarios as shown below:
1 - Offset 100mm, 200mm so that the grids won't touch the external
2. Play around with the ar, ab, ar
Also, I have re-run using your model provided on 07 April 2016 with the lux level, but the result (shown below) is still the same (as in the light still comes in).
Regarding the below Radiance settings, i have tried numerous but still cannot get the figures as shown in red below:
Couild the problem lies with my Radiance software?
Kindly advise.
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Re: Ecotect and Radiance Daylight Results Discussion
Hello EIM123,
I *may * have found your culprit here...
First of all, I think your grid looks the way it does because of your scale. If you were to adjust your scale maximum and maximum - say 0 for minimum, 2,000 for maximum and contour of 100, it will look better. I believe you currently show your maximum at 100, which is not reasonable.
Secondly, I have ran several passes, with each one turning off a particular layer to see if any layer was affecting the results.
1. No "Land" layer; if that plane was in the same plane as the floor of your space, it could affect the results. But no major changes occurred.
2. I deleted all your construction lines in your model (Select menu > By Element Type > Line). No effect at all.
3. No "Surrounding Buildings" layer; just to make sure since in my original tests, I had turned this off anyways to make things simple and faster. There were changes here, but to be expected since the buildings do block quite a bit of light in your space, but there were still too much light in your toilet room.
4. It occurred to me that the model you last sent me was different from the previous ones. You did delete quite a bit of objects (the double pane windows I assume), which is good as it makes the model cleaner and calculations faster. But I also see a new zone and your "Roof" zone is now including a floor object that is in the same plane as the floor of your space. I think this is a modeling error. In fact, you can turn the zone "Roof" off and it should not affect the daylighting since you have now a new layer created called "Ceiling".
Turns out this "Roof" layer seems to be the culprit: turn it off and the results look in line with what I was getting in previous runs. Note that there will still be some "light" in the toilet room, but under 1.0 lux, which given the accuracy settings of Radiance, this is pretty much 0.
Give it another go without the "Roof" layer, and pick an appropriate range for your scale and you will get what you want I think. I believe you could delete the floor object of your "Roof" layer and that would work too.
Let me know if that do the trick.
Cheers,
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Re: Ecotect and Radiance Daylight Results Discussion
Hi Olivier,
Thanks for your help. I have followed the steps and am able to get a reasonable Radiance results by turning off the "Land" and "Surrounding buildings" layers. But if I turned off this 2 layers, the radiance results will look about the same for the 4 different periods (22 Mar, 22 Jun, 22 Sep and 22 Dec).
Kindly advise if we were to turn on the "Surrounding Buildings", how should we go about it so as to get a reasonable results?
Thanks and Best Regards,
Yu Kiong
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Re: Ecotect and Radiance Daylight Results Discussion
Hello EIM123,
Do not delete the surrounding buildings layer. This is key to your analysis.
Can you email me the original Sketchup file (save as version 8 please) for this model?
I still feel uncomfortable with all the vertices and 0 area objects in this model. I think there is a better way to import it more cleanly, which may or may not help with the analysis. But at this point, we have to try.
Cheers,
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Problem Calculating Mean Radiant Temperature
Dear Sir/ Madam,
As I conduct mean radiant calculation, a problem is encountered that I believe the mean radiant temperature remain unchanged for indoor and outdoor zones. It changes only according to the date. My testing set up is elaborated as below.
1. An about 10m x 5m box is built by drawing a plane and extruding it. One of the vertical planes is deleted to create an opening to outside.
2. All planes are set as default concrete render
3. Analysis grid is assigned about 0.2m above ground. It extends to the outside plane.
4. Comfort analysis is conducted.
5. The resultant mean radiant temperature does not have much variation. It is a constant 29 degC except at the very corner at the outside plane.
5. Actually, even with the all four vertical planes present (no opening to outside), the resultant radiant temperature is also the same. I doubt if the engine has considered the indoor/ outdoor zone.
It would be much appreciate if you could help. I suspect that I may have missed a few steps to trigger the actual calculation.
Thank you very much in advance.
Best Regards,
Leo
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Re: Ecotect Analysis 2011 for windows-64 bit
thanxxx
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